"Look, it worked well. I, almost every week, met in Milan Giuliano Tavaroli and presents the content of practice. When all the information was particularly important, Giuliano even let me finish speaking, that already was on the phone. As I am told to call your voice Marco Tronchetti Provera or him directly, since the company was one of the few to do so. He said: 'I'm with the Doctor in Florence, led to the outcome we expected, I'll be right'. Then away goes toward Negroes, where he Tronchetti office, with the dossier under his arm. "Here it is the truth of the" Florentine ", aka Emanuele Cipriani, 49 years lived in the shadow of private detectives, intelligence and large companies. And even if a defendant is an inconvenient truth. Why Cipriani, the man who picked up the file from the world of finance and politics - from Ds to Force Italy - and the card, the Pirelli and Telecom employees, today has a devil for hair. He's got that in the scandal with Tronchetti the security of the telephone company was and has remained a witness. Angry with the judges that "rose to the level". And that, moreover, the seized millions of € considered the result of a massive embezzlement against the company. Cipriani money now wants it back. "Why - protest - it's as if they told me that the money they've stolen. But I do crimes I committed, I welcome them. Thief But, no. It was all revenues. And with each invoice a corresponding numeric code that refers to a practice, or to an activity that could be: lawful illecita o parzialmente lecita. Un lavoro di cui, oltretutto i vertici dell'azienda e Tronchetti, che adesso fa persino finta di non sapere chi sono, erano perfettamente a conoscenza. I miei committenti erano Pirelli e Telecom. Tra i miei clienti, in qualche caso, ci sono stati lo stesso Tronchetti e alcuni suoi avvocati: è tutto riscontrabile".D'accordo, Cipriani, le cose staranno pure così. Ma lei come fa a sostenere che Tronchetti fosse al corrente dei metodi usati per raccogliere informazioni? Agli incontri tra lui e Tavaroli lei non partecipava...
Sa che cosa sono i disturbatori d'assemblea?Sì, azionisti che fanno domande scomode. In qualche caso sono persino dei ricattatori...Esatto, in Telecom ce ne erano molti. Ma alcuni di loro were good people. People graduate prepared, as I said Tavaroli, Tronchetti suffered. That point for years and often with their questions put him in imbarazzo.E then? Well, every year Tavaroli asked me an update on investigating their circumstances. You went to see if there was anything negative about them. Analyze it from top to fondo.Questo what does that prove? I
plays. Tell you a story that I reported to the magistrates, because the point did not ask me anything. Was it 2003 or 2004, however, was the last meeting that I followed. Tavaroli receives a phone call. And logs that says "I recommend that one there." He was referring to a professor of Calabria, Gianfranco D'Atri, on which there is a very detailed dossier. Julie tells me that "what the doctor is suffering." And what do you do?
heavy activity. Julian said: "I want everything." D'Atri at the Meeting will also be monitored continuously, in the jargon we say mapped by the security guards along with their leaders and some leaders of the company sitting alongside Tronchetti.Non seems a crime.
Yes, but I have a stroke of luck. I can tack one my source. A person that I anticipate most of the questions that will in Tronchetti. It is an intelligence-style, they call handling operation. On the night previous meeting around the information to a man of security that, as I am told, the vehicle Tronchetti. The result is that the doctor meets with all quiet. In short, makes a beautiful picture. Explain to me how could you think that any information was obtained lawfully? Storiaccia. But does not close the circle ...
Dice? I took care of business for Pirelli and Telecom were worth many millions of dollars. Requests for information "ordinary" concerned usually suppliers or prospective suppliers: we did the analysis to see if they were reliable. In other cases, let's call them "extraordinary", the claims were specific and direct acquisition news also strategic for Pirelli and Telecom. To claim these were the so-called "internal customers". The mega-managers, often the direction of the office or staff who spoke with Tavaroli or delivery of mail that sometimes, I girava.E then?
This shows that the company was well aware of how, even illegal, in my work. And not just because Tavaroli told me that the practices most important and sensitive business course Tronchetti personal following. The point is that they were often collected information of a banking and investment. And given that banking secrecy exists, it seems to me that everyone could understand that you were faced with something illegal. Not to mention the mass profiling ... Blacklisting of mass?
Yes, you remember the scandal of the early seventies on thousands of Fiat workers in Turin on which the company had made to the dossier? Sure.
Well, we had done something similar. Scanning in the operations and filter have checked who aspired to enter the Telecom and Pirelli. Preceded the controls over to police. The results send them to the security that they turned to the leaders of personale.E dossiers on politicians, however, what were they for? That the Secretary
reforms Aldo Brancher because we did Tavaroli told me that the "doctor" was to meet with the League leader, Umberto Bossi. And that's why "Welded needed the sponsorship of Brancher. He explained to me that had to be heavy, she needed to know everything about him. I so I left an offshore company that connected to a series of speculative transactions. From there I got ended up on lui.Ma Tronchetti read the dossier?
When I reported it to the outcome Julian was one of those times when he telephoned him to say "it's in Florence, I'll be right by her." But now I read that Tronchetti says he almost never seen Giuliano Tavaroli and took advantage of his trust. The beauty is that the judiciary has the creduto.Forse Tavaroli because in his interviews he has carefully kept out of everything. While it has brought up during talks with six Giuseppe D'Avanzo of La Repubblica. He asked the reason for this attitude by Tavaroli? Me
are asked, and I have not shared. I'm just saying Tavaroli, after two years from his statements to the Republic, called the plea bargain and ended it all with 4 ½ years of effort. In fact, already served a sentence, given that three years have been forgiven. Well perhaps in the light of his plea agreement if each response can give on solo.Cosa thought when he saw his statements?
After closing the newspaper, said, "Finally we decided to talk." Since I was very happy with my lawyers insisted that they went in to Dr. Fabio Napoleone attorney to ask what would happen. One of my lawyers told me the answer: "Hi there, if it is verbalized Tavaroli. Mi cascarono le braccia...Per lei, quindi, non si è voluto indagare a fondo.
Constato quello che è accaduto. Si potevano sentire molte altre persone da me menzionate come a conoscenza del modus operandi nelle aziende Pirelli e Telecom. Pensi solo ai dirigenti che ricevevano i report sul personale d'assumere. Si potevano fare perquisizioni, per riscontrare le mie dichiarazioni. Mi fa poi riflettere il fatto che le registrazioni di alcuni miei interrogatori sui dossier più sensibili politicamente sono state depositate, ma senza trascriverle. Agli atti ci sono i verbali riassuntivi in cui mancano dei nomi che sono quasi certo di avere fatto.Cosa intende dire?
Le faccio un esempio: il dossier su Lorenzo Cesa, il segretario dell’Udc. Durante questioning Dr. Napoleon tells me smile that in some ways I have anticipated the situation that then arose in the investigation of Luigi De Magistris, Poseidon and Why Not. I answered, with as much sympathy: "He saw me because they paid well? Because they said I was good." He laughed. But it was the truth. The prosecutor, however, to understand why I was commissioned the survey should have taken the Tronchetti agenda, as I suggested, I think Oak ovvio.Anche the dossier, the alleged foreign accounts of the DS was prepared in view of the political appointment ?
No, that was long investigation. The churches Tavaroli Tronchetti for when purchasing package majority of Telecom, in fact soon after his ingresso.Tavaroli said on record that you started because it was believed that Oak Fund, its directors of Telecom.
No, I tell her how it went. I have already said but nobody believed me. He calls me and tells me that I must return from holiday, "because the Doctor has bought Telecom." We are at the end of August 2001. Tavaroli's Il Sole 24 Ore on the table. He takes the pen and says, looking at the composition of Bell, the company Lussembughese, which controlled the capital, these are them. It said Oak Fund: background oak. I say 'ah well, it's a joke?', He tells me 'no, I have cognizance to them. The Doctor wants to know who was at home '. And I I go with the article in hand, asking, and now how do I start? Yeah, how did he do? As almost always
. From the beginning, analyzing news about open sources and databases accessible to all. If we were here my folders even if she would be aware. I called to report to my sources, including my main source for international operations, the famous English detective "John Pow," and we went ahead stage by stage. We made more than 10 reports, with as many summary diagrams, because the doctor just wanted to diagrams and "executive summary", Tavaroli I always said. The work you do, do it well. But the documents you put them behind me. And so it came out of a financial system of the highest level. The famous financial companies ... The problem, wrote the papers, is that the last document, the decisive one, is guilty ...
No, not the last document. It 'a document, attached to one of the last "executive summary", from a fiduciary of a foreign country off-shore. But it is on headed paper and is left inside the body. In short, we read a sentence, if I remember correctly, like, per your request we tell you that behind this account, there are those people. Then I spotted only the signatures of the directors of the trust. So it could be fake ...
told me even Dr. Napoleon. But I answered him: what a pity that in recent reports, including documents bank, telex and paper with the signatures stained there will be thirty attachments. Assume that I have cheated to 50 percent, but I think that is enough. And bear in mind that my sources are people I've worked for over ten years and have never given me wrong information. The same Pirelli and Telecom companies have certified the reliability. What does it mean certified sources?
means that there were executives forced to resign on the basis of my dossier. Executives today have not claimed damages against me. Yet in those cases it comes to their foreign accounts, bank transfers across borders, business short of infidelity. It's all people who have been so much resignation di lettera di benemerenza di Tronchetti. Insomma, erano Telecom e Pirelli che mi confermavano che le mie fonti erano buone, perché quei dirigenti erano stati visti "in difficoltà" da Tronchetti. E allora, se erano buone quando io facevo cacciare i dirigenti, perché non dovevano essere buone su Oak?Le polpette avvelenate si vendono anche così...Certo, però io ho trenta allegati...Solo che ora nessuno per legge può indagare per sapere se il contenuto dei dossier era falso o meno. Nel 2006 il parlamento con una legge bipartisan ne ha ordinato la distruzione...
Interviene Francesco Caroleo Grimaldi, avvocato di fiducia di Cipriani, assieme a Vinicio Nardo: "Sulla base dei dossier non si può aprire un'indagine. Ma sulla base delle dichiarazioni del nostro assistito sì. E infatti ci lascia interdetti che oggi si colpisca l'autore delle investigazioni e che viceversa restino immuni chi ha dato l'incarico delle investigazioni e i soggetti destinatari di ipotesi di reato oggetto delle investigazioni". Cipriani continua: "Io penso che se era difficoltoso fare le verifiche sull'estero, c'era abbondante materiale su persone fisiche e societarie italiane che avevo individuato come fiduciari italiani, alcuni dei quali addirittura lombardi. Queste cose andavano verificate".Credo di sì, anche se in procura spiegano che i fatti contenuti nel suo dossier non erano recenti. E che l'eventuale ipotesi di reato, la violazione della legge sul finanziamento pubblico ai partiti, era già caduta in prescrizione. Comunque, Cipriani, le informazioni sui Ds a che servivano?
Tavaroli diceva che le avrebbe gestite il dottore nelle sue attività romane. Perché Telecom , sosteneva, era un patrimonio romano ed un "feudo" di una certa area politica. Io ne prendevo atto e pensavo che loro volessero sapere come gira la musica per avere argomenti di interlocuzione.Un ricatto?
In carcere i magistrati mi hanno chiesto: "ma voi chi ricattavate?". Ho risposto io nessuno e sfido chicchessia a dire se è mai stato ricattato da me. Le pratiche non erano per me, ma per chi le commissionava: lo chieda a loro. Comunque io, con tutto quello che penso di Tronchetti, sono convinto che non sia un ricattatore. Certo, però, che conoscere le news is: it is said that the information is always potere.Lei also had ties of friendship and work with Marco Mancini, head of counter ...
Yes, almost thirty years. But on this, today, there is a state secret. I can say, as I did with the prosecutor, after asking the judges to ask if I could answer that I have done some work on behalf of the Earthquakes. A report I talked about two things because I thought, and I believe that secrecy is not raised certain issues even though they were confidential. The rest have not spoken. However, my collaboration with service dates back to the Colonel Umberto Bonaventura. It was a support activity aimed informative Italian and foreign operations and logistics. My partner was usually Mancini also because I had some sources that he aveva.Così between law requiring the destruction of files, the secret state, the silence of those Tavaroli and printing of these stories no longer speaks ...
The powers that exist. When Tavaroli, in his statements to the Republic described the network "Roman" that can influence policies and decisions of political and economic status, based on what he told me, I was right. Tronchetti has played his cards well. He found the channels through which could be heard. The situation is this. And the fact that he has become vice-president of Mediobanca after leaving Telecom per me, la dice lunga. Comunque facciano come credono. A me importa solo che non mi facciano passare per un ladro. Le mie società non erano una cartiera, non facevano fatture false. Lavoravano per Pirelli, Telecom e per le migliori industrie italiane, con un portafoglio clienti di tutto rispetto. E io oggi voglio solo indietro quello che mi spetta. ( il Fatto Quotidiano )
Sa che cosa sono i disturbatori d'assemblea?Sì, azionisti che fanno domande scomode. In qualche caso sono persino dei ricattatori...Esatto, in Telecom ce ne erano molti. Ma alcuni di loro were good people. People graduate prepared, as I said Tavaroli, Tronchetti suffered. That point for years and often with their questions put him in imbarazzo.E then? Well, every year Tavaroli asked me an update on investigating their circumstances. You went to see if there was anything negative about them. Analyze it from top to fondo.Questo what does that prove? I
plays. Tell you a story that I reported to the magistrates, because the point did not ask me anything. Was it 2003 or 2004, however, was the last meeting that I followed. Tavaroli receives a phone call. And logs that says "I recommend that one there." He was referring to a professor of Calabria, Gianfranco D'Atri, on which there is a very detailed dossier. Julie tells me that "what the doctor is suffering." And what do you do?
heavy activity. Julian said: "I want everything." D'Atri at the Meeting will also be monitored continuously, in the jargon we say mapped by the security guards along with their leaders and some leaders of the company sitting alongside Tronchetti.Non seems a crime.
Yes, but I have a stroke of luck. I can tack one my source. A person that I anticipate most of the questions that will in Tronchetti. It is an intelligence-style, they call handling operation. On the night previous meeting around the information to a man of security that, as I am told, the vehicle Tronchetti. The result is that the doctor meets with all quiet. In short, makes a beautiful picture. Explain to me how could you think that any information was obtained lawfully? Storiaccia. But does not close the circle ...
Dice? I took care of business for Pirelli and Telecom were worth many millions of dollars. Requests for information "ordinary" concerned usually suppliers or prospective suppliers: we did the analysis to see if they were reliable. In other cases, let's call them "extraordinary", the claims were specific and direct acquisition news also strategic for Pirelli and Telecom. To claim these were the so-called "internal customers". The mega-managers, often the direction of the office or staff who spoke with Tavaroli or delivery of mail that sometimes, I girava.E then?
This shows that the company was well aware of how, even illegal, in my work. And not just because Tavaroli told me that the practices most important and sensitive business course Tronchetti personal following. The point is that they were often collected information of a banking and investment. And given that banking secrecy exists, it seems to me that everyone could understand that you were faced with something illegal. Not to mention the mass profiling ... Blacklisting of mass?
Yes, you remember the scandal of the early seventies on thousands of Fiat workers in Turin on which the company had made to the dossier? Sure.
Well, we had done something similar. Scanning in the operations and filter have checked who aspired to enter the Telecom and Pirelli. Preceded the controls over to police. The results send them to the security that they turned to the leaders of personale.E dossiers on politicians, however, what were they for? That the Secretary
reforms Aldo Brancher because we did Tavaroli told me that the "doctor" was to meet with the League leader, Umberto Bossi. And that's why "Welded needed the sponsorship of Brancher. He explained to me that had to be heavy, she needed to know everything about him. I so I left an offshore company that connected to a series of speculative transactions. From there I got ended up on lui.Ma Tronchetti read the dossier?
When I reported it to the outcome Julian was one of those times when he telephoned him to say "it's in Florence, I'll be right by her." But now I read that Tronchetti says he almost never seen Giuliano Tavaroli and took advantage of his trust. The beauty is that the judiciary has the creduto.Forse Tavaroli because in his interviews he has carefully kept out of everything. While it has brought up during talks with six Giuseppe D'Avanzo of La Repubblica. He asked the reason for this attitude by Tavaroli? Me
are asked, and I have not shared. I'm just saying Tavaroli, after two years from his statements to the Republic, called the plea bargain and ended it all with 4 ½ years of effort. In fact, already served a sentence, given that three years have been forgiven. Well perhaps in the light of his plea agreement if each response can give on solo.Cosa thought when he saw his statements?
After closing the newspaper, said, "Finally we decided to talk." Since I was very happy with my lawyers insisted that they went in to Dr. Fabio Napoleone attorney to ask what would happen. One of my lawyers told me the answer: "Hi there, if it is verbalized Tavaroli. Mi cascarono le braccia...Per lei, quindi, non si è voluto indagare a fondo.
Constato quello che è accaduto. Si potevano sentire molte altre persone da me menzionate come a conoscenza del modus operandi nelle aziende Pirelli e Telecom. Pensi solo ai dirigenti che ricevevano i report sul personale d'assumere. Si potevano fare perquisizioni, per riscontrare le mie dichiarazioni. Mi fa poi riflettere il fatto che le registrazioni di alcuni miei interrogatori sui dossier più sensibili politicamente sono state depositate, ma senza trascriverle. Agli atti ci sono i verbali riassuntivi in cui mancano dei nomi che sono quasi certo di avere fatto.Cosa intende dire?
Le faccio un esempio: il dossier su Lorenzo Cesa, il segretario dell’Udc. Durante questioning Dr. Napoleon tells me smile that in some ways I have anticipated the situation that then arose in the investigation of Luigi De Magistris, Poseidon and Why Not. I answered, with as much sympathy: "He saw me because they paid well? Because they said I was good." He laughed. But it was the truth. The prosecutor, however, to understand why I was commissioned the survey should have taken the Tronchetti agenda, as I suggested, I think Oak ovvio.Anche the dossier, the alleged foreign accounts of the DS was prepared in view of the political appointment ?
No, that was long investigation. The churches Tavaroli Tronchetti for when purchasing package majority of Telecom, in fact soon after his ingresso.Tavaroli said on record that you started because it was believed that Oak Fund, its directors of Telecom.
No, I tell her how it went. I have already said but nobody believed me. He calls me and tells me that I must return from holiday, "because the Doctor has bought Telecom." We are at the end of August 2001. Tavaroli's Il Sole 24 Ore on the table. He takes the pen and says, looking at the composition of Bell, the company Lussembughese, which controlled the capital, these are them. It said Oak Fund: background oak. I say 'ah well, it's a joke?', He tells me 'no, I have cognizance to them. The Doctor wants to know who was at home '. And I I go with the article in hand, asking, and now how do I start? Yeah, how did he do? As almost always
. From the beginning, analyzing news about open sources and databases accessible to all. If we were here my folders even if she would be aware. I called to report to my sources, including my main source for international operations, the famous English detective "John Pow," and we went ahead stage by stage. We made more than 10 reports, with as many summary diagrams, because the doctor just wanted to diagrams and "executive summary", Tavaroli I always said. The work you do, do it well. But the documents you put them behind me. And so it came out of a financial system of the highest level. The famous financial companies ... The problem, wrote the papers, is that the last document, the decisive one, is guilty ...
No, not the last document. It 'a document, attached to one of the last "executive summary", from a fiduciary of a foreign country off-shore. But it is on headed paper and is left inside the body. In short, we read a sentence, if I remember correctly, like, per your request we tell you that behind this account, there are those people. Then I spotted only the signatures of the directors of the trust. So it could be fake ...
told me even Dr. Napoleon. But I answered him: what a pity that in recent reports, including documents bank, telex and paper with the signatures stained there will be thirty attachments. Assume that I have cheated to 50 percent, but I think that is enough. And bear in mind that my sources are people I've worked for over ten years and have never given me wrong information. The same Pirelli and Telecom companies have certified the reliability. What does it mean certified sources?
means that there were executives forced to resign on the basis of my dossier. Executives today have not claimed damages against me. Yet in those cases it comes to their foreign accounts, bank transfers across borders, business short of infidelity. It's all people who have been so much resignation di lettera di benemerenza di Tronchetti. Insomma, erano Telecom e Pirelli che mi confermavano che le mie fonti erano buone, perché quei dirigenti erano stati visti "in difficoltà" da Tronchetti. E allora, se erano buone quando io facevo cacciare i dirigenti, perché non dovevano essere buone su Oak?Le polpette avvelenate si vendono anche così...Certo, però io ho trenta allegati...Solo che ora nessuno per legge può indagare per sapere se il contenuto dei dossier era falso o meno. Nel 2006 il parlamento con una legge bipartisan ne ha ordinato la distruzione...
Interviene Francesco Caroleo Grimaldi, avvocato di fiducia di Cipriani, assieme a Vinicio Nardo: "Sulla base dei dossier non si può aprire un'indagine. Ma sulla base delle dichiarazioni del nostro assistito sì. E infatti ci lascia interdetti che oggi si colpisca l'autore delle investigazioni e che viceversa restino immuni chi ha dato l'incarico delle investigazioni e i soggetti destinatari di ipotesi di reato oggetto delle investigazioni". Cipriani continua: "Io penso che se era difficoltoso fare le verifiche sull'estero, c'era abbondante materiale su persone fisiche e societarie italiane che avevo individuato come fiduciari italiani, alcuni dei quali addirittura lombardi. Queste cose andavano verificate".Credo di sì, anche se in procura spiegano che i fatti contenuti nel suo dossier non erano recenti. E che l'eventuale ipotesi di reato, la violazione della legge sul finanziamento pubblico ai partiti, era già caduta in prescrizione. Comunque, Cipriani, le informazioni sui Ds a che servivano?
Tavaroli diceva che le avrebbe gestite il dottore nelle sue attività romane. Perché Telecom , sosteneva, era un patrimonio romano ed un "feudo" di una certa area politica. Io ne prendevo atto e pensavo che loro volessero sapere come gira la musica per avere argomenti di interlocuzione.Un ricatto?
In carcere i magistrati mi hanno chiesto: "ma voi chi ricattavate?". Ho risposto io nessuno e sfido chicchessia a dire se è mai stato ricattato da me. Le pratiche non erano per me, ma per chi le commissionava: lo chieda a loro. Comunque io, con tutto quello che penso di Tronchetti, sono convinto che non sia un ricattatore. Certo, però, che conoscere le news is: it is said that the information is always potere.Lei also had ties of friendship and work with Marco Mancini, head of counter ...
Yes, almost thirty years. But on this, today, there is a state secret. I can say, as I did with the prosecutor, after asking the judges to ask if I could answer that I have done some work on behalf of the Earthquakes. A report I talked about two things because I thought, and I believe that secrecy is not raised certain issues even though they were confidential. The rest have not spoken. However, my collaboration with service dates back to the Colonel Umberto Bonaventura. It was a support activity aimed informative Italian and foreign operations and logistics. My partner was usually Mancini also because I had some sources that he aveva.Così between law requiring the destruction of files, the secret state, the silence of those Tavaroli and printing of these stories no longer speaks ...
The powers that exist. When Tavaroli, in his statements to the Republic described the network "Roman" that can influence policies and decisions of political and economic status, based on what he told me, I was right. Tronchetti has played his cards well. He found the channels through which could be heard. The situation is this. And the fact that he has become vice-president of Mediobanca after leaving Telecom per me, la dice lunga. Comunque facciano come credono. A me importa solo che non mi facciano passare per un ladro. Le mie società non erano una cartiera, non facevano fatture false. Lavoravano per Pirelli, Telecom e per le migliori industrie italiane, con un portafoglio clienti di tutto rispetto. E io oggi voglio solo indietro quello che mi spetta. ( il Fatto Quotidiano )
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